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Anonymous commented at 2018-02-21 13:13:00 » #2213807
The best part is the swell around the hit. While I miss the gratification and authenticity of fighters with bruises and blood done properly, little momentary details like this aren't so bad. Good job doing that much, Super. Thank you.
But you still fall short of what you should have been and why anyone ever thought to make you a kid's show I will never know. Oh well... *sighs* Get 'em Son...
5 Points
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The best part is the swell around the hit. While I miss the gratification and authenticity of fighters with bruises and blood done properly, little momentary details like this aren't so bad. Good job doing that much, Super. Thank you.
But you still fall short of what you should have been and why anyone ever thought to make you a kid's show I will never know. Oh well... *sighs* Get 'em Son...
5 Points
Flag
Anonymous commented at 2018-02-21 15:24:57 » #2213836
Sorry Anon2, but if you thought that Dragon Ball was at any point a show not made for kids and families, you've been living a delusion begun by ignorant, elitist pricks and bad fansubbers from the mid to late 90s. Dragon Ball has always been a franchise intended for a family audience, the fact is simply that Japan has far different ideals of what's considered acceptable family viewing than the US does, and Japanese television broadcast standards have shifted significantly over the years.
5 Points
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Sorry Anon2, but if you thought that Dragon Ball was at any point a show not made for kids and families, you've been living a delusion begun by ignorant, elitist pricks and bad fansubbers from the mid to late 90s. Dragon Ball has always been a franchise intended for a family audience, the fact is simply that Japan has far different ideals of what's considered acceptable family viewing than the US does, and Japanese television broadcast standards have shifted significantly over the years.
5 Points
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Anonymous commented at 2018-02-21 16:41:48 » #2213856
A hell of a lot more has changed between Z and Super than just the timeslot it airs in. The target demographic is the same, but there are numerous stark differences between Super and it's predecessors. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
3 Points
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A hell of a lot more has changed between Z and Super than just the timeslot it airs in. The target demographic is the same, but there are numerous stark differences between Super and it's predecessors. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
3 Points
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Anonymous commented at 2018-02-21 23:20:25 » #2213938
Anon 2, here. Let's do this right.
First, you disagree with me, and that's okay. I'm an adult. I don't need you believe me to know what I believe, and I don't need to insult you to prove that I'm right. I'm not replying to be an asshole and get into a debate. I'm just being as clear as I can, because it's easy to get the wrong idea online.
I watch Super. I like Super. And when I say that, I'm aware that I like a children's show. I'm not ashamed of that. Kids' shows can be fun, and even insightful to a degree. Ben 10 was great. Teen Titans, too. There are others. And Dragon Ball Z fits in that category, as well.
To a point.
There's no need to rely on nostalgia, either. Watch any major battle - pick any of them. I suggest Vegeta getting manhandled by Frieza, uncut, unabridged, in it's original Japanese - if you prefer. I don't think the idea of "Family Friendly" applies there, by really any stretch of the imagination. It isn't just the blood... it's the brutality. The sheer, unabashed abusive behavior, that you felt because it wanted you to feel it.
While some might say that death has no meaning in Dragon Ball... at times... that didn't matter. People got hurt... and they stayed hurt the whole fight. The blood helped you understand why, with no doubts. None. Maybe they got up and did another ki blast... some desperate attempt to be useful... but nothing as grand as getting back into the fray. They looked beaten... and that's because they were.
Dragon Ball and Z were from a different time in Japan. The laws have changed. Many of us know this, and are saddened by it. Super is a good example of why. It turned what was once a children's show that could appeal to the nature of adults fighting for their lives into a tired shell of its former self. It feels like your grandpa trying to convince you he's still cool, and you love him so you cheer him on... but you really hope he stops soon, because the longer it goes the more embarrassing it becomes for everyone.
Zeno is and forever will be a mistake. The constant interruptions within any battle to catalog each and every interesting moment is not only overdone, but useless. While spectators have always been a staple, and there was always chatter, it was never so encompassing that most of the episode was swallowed by it. Frankly, I'm shocked that amazing warriors in the final moments can be seen moving by the likes of Krillin, 18, or Roshi. Especially Roshi. And that they can just gives more people trying to throw their two-cents in when what we want is to see the fight. Commentary has its place. That place is not every fifteen seconds.
I won't bitch about powerups or forms. We all knew what we were getting in to. This is Dragon Ball. Asspulls happen. The retcons were not required, and many of them felt more like granddad being asked to tell that story we love, and he doesn't realize we're old enough now to realize he doesn't quite recall how it all went. So he just keeps making up new stuff and trying to tie it in. Maybe the companies are to blame. Who knows. I love Akira Toriyama's work, but that doesn't meant what Super is right reflects where it came from.
And it feels like its being done on purpose.
The laws being changed could have not applied to Dragon Ball Super. They could have bided and fought for that. No such fight has ever been mentioned. Dragon Ball has and will always be a children's show. Of course. But it never felt like it, and watching today, it still doesn't. Perhaps by writing, sure... but whoever said Mr. Toriyama was a resplendent wordsmith? Not me. Not most of the fans I know. But he could give you one hell of a fight. And when people were hurt, when things were serious... that "family friendly" line could get a little murky.
Super isn't murky. It's a kid's show and it only wants to be that. It wants to be that very, very badly. It almost feels like the creator is ashamed of his old work... And that's heartbreaking.
But I watch, and it does a lot that I like. I will always cheer for Goku. Except when he's Black. Because Black Goku is bad. And I don't mean that because he's Black. I mean that because he was just an idea to reminiscent of really bad DC or Marvel comics that should never have hit the shelves.
Super is trying to be a lot of things: A kid's show more than it has ever been, appealing to other anime to the point where it is all but copying their routines, and its also trying to be really, really exciting.
I know, because Zeno keeps telling me every episode.
1 Points
Flag
Anon 2, here. Let's do this right.
First, you disagree with me, and that's okay. I'm an adult. I don't need you believe me to know what I believe, and I don't need to insult you to prove that I'm right. I'm not replying to be an asshole and get into a debate. I'm just being as clear as I can, because it's easy to get the wrong idea online.
I watch Super. I like Super. And when I say that, I'm aware that I like a children's show. I'm not ashamed of that. Kids' shows can be fun, and even insightful to a degree. Ben 10 was great. Teen Titans, too. There are others. And Dragon Ball Z fits in that category, as well.
To a point.
There's no need to rely on nostalgia, either. Watch any major battle - pick any of them. I suggest Vegeta getting manhandled by Frieza, uncut, unabridged, in it's original Japanese - if you prefer. I don't think the idea of "Family Friendly" applies there, by really any stretch of the imagination. It isn't just the blood... it's the brutality. The sheer, unabashed abusive behavior, that you felt because it wanted you to feel it.
While some might say that death has no meaning in Dragon Ball... at times... that didn't matter. People got hurt... and they stayed hurt the whole fight. The blood helped you understand why, with no doubts. None. Maybe they got up and did another ki blast... some desperate attempt to be useful... but nothing as grand as getting back into the fray. They looked beaten... and that's because they were.
Dragon Ball and Z were from a different time in Japan. The laws have changed. Many of us know this, and are saddened by it. Super is a good example of why. It turned what was once a children's show that could appeal to the nature of adults fighting for their lives into a tired shell of its former self. It feels like your grandpa trying to convince you he's still cool, and you love him so you cheer him on... but you really hope he stops soon, because the longer it goes the more embarrassing it becomes for everyone.
Zeno is and forever will be a mistake. The constant interruptions within any battle to catalog each and every interesting moment is not only overdone, but useless. While spectators have always been a staple, and there was always chatter, it was never so encompassing that most of the episode was swallowed by it. Frankly, I'm shocked that amazing warriors in the final moments can be seen moving by the likes of Krillin, 18, or Roshi. Especially Roshi. And that they can just gives more people trying to throw their two-cents in when what we want is to see the fight. Commentary has its place. That place is not every fifteen seconds.
I won't bitch about powerups or forms. We all knew what we were getting in to. This is Dragon Ball. Asspulls happen. The retcons were not required, and many of them felt more like granddad being asked to tell that story we love, and he doesn't realize we're old enough now to realize he doesn't quite recall how it all went. So he just keeps making up new stuff and trying to tie it in. Maybe the companies are to blame. Who knows. I love Akira Toriyama's work, but that doesn't meant what Super is right reflects where it came from.
And it feels like its being done on purpose.
The laws being changed could have not applied to Dragon Ball Super. They could have bided and fought for that. No such fight has ever been mentioned. Dragon Ball has and will always be a children's show. Of course. But it never felt like it, and watching today, it still doesn't. Perhaps by writing, sure... but whoever said Mr. Toriyama was a resplendent wordsmith? Not me. Not most of the fans I know. But he could give you one hell of a fight. And when people were hurt, when things were serious... that "family friendly" line could get a little murky.
Super isn't murky. It's a kid's show and it only wants to be that. It wants to be that very, very badly. It almost feels like the creator is ashamed of his old work... And that's heartbreaking.
But I watch, and it does a lot that I like. I will always cheer for Goku. Except when he's Black. Because Black Goku is bad. And I don't mean that because he's Black. I mean that because he was just an idea to reminiscent of really bad DC or Marvel comics that should never have hit the shelves.
Super is trying to be a lot of things: A kid's show more than it has ever been, appealing to other anime to the point where it is all but copying their routines, and its also trying to be really, really exciting.
I know, because Zeno keeps telling me every episode.
1 Points
Flag
Anonymous commented at 2018-02-22 07:05:47 » #2214028
^ Don't forget the constent 'subtle' reminders of eating healthy (at least in the earlier arcs) and the immature altercations of two gods of destructions. Yes, that too, was always a Part of Dragon Ball. Kaios jokingly Shenanigans, Old Kai at some extend,.. but never that shoved in one's face.
Champa felt like of one of those annoying Relatives or appearing Characters in bad Disney Sequels or Series that extended Movies.
Well, the Manga at least feels more like the classic.
3 Points
Flag
^ Don't forget the constent 'subtle' reminders of eating healthy (at least in the earlier arcs) and the immature altercations of two gods of destructions. Yes, that too, was always a Part of Dragon Ball. Kaios jokingly Shenanigans, Old Kai at some extend,.. but never that shoved in one's face.
Champa felt like of one of those annoying Relatives or appearing Characters in bad Disney Sequels or Series that extended Movies.
Well, the Manga at least feels more like the classic.
3 Points
Flag
Anonymous commented at 2018-02-22 09:22:58 » #2214037
I like the manga and anime well enough. I sincerely do. I also know that it's even more sad that the manga exists right alongside the material it mimics and corrects.
The manga and the anime alike required more time, a better association with its source material, and a creator that's not fed up with his own creation. All these new shows that have sprung up while Dragon Ball has been complete now do things differently, and the companies in control want the show to be all those things combined. And when the animation fucks up (or even hints that it has), the manga comes along and tries to play stand-in, like that makes it okay...
Super is decent as an anime, somewhat better as a manga. I can't hold it to impossible standards that don't fit the demographic it clearly aims for. It can't and will never be the original, nor does it want to be. Toriyama should be allowed to leave the franchise alone, and the appeal of its worth shouldn't be in how it stacks up against the very shows it inspired.
The writing of Dragon Ball has never been what I'd call phenomenal, and many of the characters have always been a bit light in the depth department. Even so, the series deserved better, and that it divided so many of us fans is the worst offense of all. The manga can't fix that; it is, in fact, part of the many reasons we fans have turned against each other...
It's fucking sad. I used to only have to put up with this kind of insulting behavior from people who "Didn't get" what Dragon Ball Z was. Now...? *sighs* Now.
6 Points
Flag
I like the manga and anime well enough. I sincerely do. I also know that it's even more sad that the manga exists right alongside the material it mimics and corrects.
The manga and the anime alike required more time, a better association with its source material, and a creator that's not fed up with his own creation. All these new shows that have sprung up while Dragon Ball has been complete now do things differently, and the companies in control want the show to be all those things combined. And when the animation fucks up (or even hints that it has), the manga comes along and tries to play stand-in, like that makes it okay...
Super is decent as an anime, somewhat better as a manga. I can't hold it to impossible standards that don't fit the demographic it clearly aims for. It can't and will never be the original, nor does it want to be. Toriyama should be allowed to leave the franchise alone, and the appeal of its worth shouldn't be in how it stacks up against the very shows it inspired.
The writing of Dragon Ball has never been what I'd call phenomenal, and many of the characters have always been a bit light in the depth department. Even so, the series deserved better, and that it divided so many of us fans is the worst offense of all. The manga can't fix that; it is, in fact, part of the many reasons we fans have turned against each other...
It's fucking sad. I used to only have to put up with this kind of insulting behavior from people who "Didn't get" what Dragon Ball Z was. Now...? *sighs* Now.
6 Points
Flag
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