Sorry for the delayed response, I ended up having to stay at the office until about 10:32PM EST, I now have the time to reply.



Okay, so being offended means objective reality is no longer objective reality? As Christoper Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and even Stephen Fry said, "So what?" I'm offended that you don't refer to me is the great and mighty JJaro-sama, and offer me bitcoins.

See all of our languages and cultures work on the inate function that words have very specific meanings, and mean very specific things when strung together.

I'd also like to point out that wiktionary is not a viable source because it can be written and edited by anyone without any peer or commitee review. So it's basically just asking some random stranger on the street how they define something. You need a standard like Merriam-Webster, the Oxford, etc. The word "girl" already has a definition, right from Merriam-Webster, "a female child from birth to adulthood" and what does female mean? Well that is covered too, "Of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes." That is from the Oxford. Are you telling me that the newhalfs now have the ability to produce eggs and bear offspring? Because out of morbid curiosity I'd kinda like to see that, maybe like a butt-baby or something, or instead of sperm they shoot out eggs like a fish. Tell you one thing, you could definitely corner a lucrative niche market.



Thank you for linking me to something.

It isn't confusion, it is vehement disagreement with the subjective redefining of standard, common, core words of the english language. This defeats the purpose of language and makes it pointless if you are going to group everything with whatever subjective feeling or opinion one has. As I stated to Vicarious_Chariot earlier, even in this reply, words have specific meanings.

Confusion would imply I just don't understand the concept, I understand it very well. I know the exact meanings of futanari, newhalf, and trap. I was probably submersing myself in Japanese anime, manga, hentai, doujins from around 1991 onwards. Remember when Hentais were so rare you could only get them from VHS to VHS transfers with the terrible yellow subtitling and you could only get it from people with certain connections? Yeah, this isn't my first rodeo. Just because I don't post doesn't mean I don't know anything.

Jerl said this in that thread,



To which I reply does having a penis, testicles, and no vagina lead to the outward appearance of a female? Because every biology book, every biologist, every medical reference book, and physican will disagree. Having a pair of implants inserted in your chest to try and replicate the appearance of SECONDARY SEX ORGANS that have no direct involvement in reproduction. If we are going to apply this logic than every woman who has gone through intensive exercise and developed a buff body with shrunken breasts, and enlarged clitorios should be considered a male then.

The thread (BlueBaroness/YIBAG) seems to generally agree with me, and Jerl doesn't address my direct points:

BlueBaroness: He's a male character. Breasts are not sex organs and having them doesn't magically make him female, so he should be tagged with 1boy.
BlueBaroness: That accurately describes his outward appearance. There's nothing in the tag that implies it's only for female characters.
BlueBaroness: He LOOKS like a woman, he isn't one.
BlueBaroness: Not really that complicated.
YIBAG: [...] while newhalf literally have the top half of a female but the bottom half of a male, hence the name. So no vagina makes it a newhalf since it's not a female with a penis above her vagina-- it's a transgendered person.

Jerl did not seem to correct, or refute them on this.



You have proven my point and are agreeing with me. I'm beginning to suspect that no one actually read and understood my stance. Tags exist to help people find what they're looking for. By conflating newhalfs with girls/women/females is erroneous. You are mixing in people that have gone out of their way to appear as a different sex when they still have their original genitilia and are unable of meeting the very definition of their respective sexes. It makes the tag of 1girl, 2girls, 3girls, utterly pointless since it now contains nonbiological women.

A person typing in 1girl is looking for a biological female. Someone with a vagina and uterous. Someone theoretically and practically capable of producing eggs and bearing offspring. They aren't looking for someone with a dick and balls and two bags of silicone in their chest. There is no way in the world you could claim that the majority of people typing in 1girl are searching specifically for newhalfs, futunari, or any form of a transexual. If they were, they'd type in those words. It doesn't matter if someone wants to identify in a way when there are objective facts that prove them wrong. There are people that thing they are literal physical incarnations of poorly drawn 2D animated ponies. It doesn't actually make them ponies. It doesn't make it real because that is how they want to self-identify.

If you are going to go that route than you need to verify each and every newhalf personally to see how they identify since you are placing your particular gender/sex definition on them, otherwise that is offensive right? You'd be assuming their gender, right?

All of the tags are meant to be objective, verifiable descriptors of the images right? If not, if they are now subjective because that fits a particular agenda or perogative than words are meaningless. I can argue that since someone is suffering from Protanopia, all redheads are now greenheads. The better solution would be to as Anti_Gendou implied, removing the gender tags from images with the newhalfs in them, then people who want to see girls can see actual, biological girls. It makes a whole lot more sense than expecting everyone else to conform to some strange definition devised outside of the normal scope of this site. You'll have to put a banner up in front that says, "Girls can have penises too."

I'm not confused. I just strongly disagree with this nonsensical logic being applied with a scatter-shot enforcement.



Which are penises and balls, not vaginas and an implied utereus. And penis and balls are male primary sexual organs, not a female's.



By that every same logic and admission, that means tagging a newhalf with girl or boy is an assumption without verifiable proof and approval from that person of how they identify. You are assuming their gender by appending either word boy or girl to the tag because they have a very specific characteristics.

Guess what, Miran now identifies as the thundergod Raiden, and Beni Sasaki identifies as Mars, the god of war. You need to fix those tags now, mortal. Also a offer a snackrifice.

I wasn't a part of the original argument, mostly because I didn't care what the policies would be. As a mod I mostly just wanted to fix what looks like tag poisoning. If the rules change then it's not a problem.

Current situation: We get most of our tags and tag definitions from Danbooru because 70% of posts and even more of our tags come from there. They don't keep most of those posts though, we have five times as many newhalf posts as Danbooru. Next I find that Danbooru never specified the use of counter tags on newhalf posts.

newhalf=667
newhalf solo=237
newhalf 1boy solo=44
newhalf 1girl solo=183
newhalf solo -1boy -1girl=10

Even this isn't wholly consistent. The 1boy ones aren't outwardly male in appearance either. 95.8% have a counter tag though with girl outnumbering boy 4 to 1.

I don't care what we do as long as it's consistent. As it is, most of the newhalf posts we get from Danbooru will have a girl counter tag on it. Fixing these imports will require an automated system that can remove the tag and maybe replace it with another. Our new alias/implication system can only look at one tag at a time. It will not first check if other characters are in the post or what gender they are so this isn't going to happen. If Danbooru makes the use of girl counters mandatory for newhalf then we will likely just follow suit.

Again, I think a more viable solution is to just remove the 1girl or 1boy from all images tagged with newhalf instead if they are the lone subject(s), if biological definitions are to be ignored. Chances are if people are specifically looking for newhalfs, they know what newhalfs are, and they aren't typing in girl as a tag to find them. I'm more concerned with the photos than the drawn/rendered images, because they get included in results regardless of the fact that the majority of the content here is fictional characters or representations of such. People shouldn't have to type in "1girl -newhalf" and other tags to not get an eyeful of someone with testicles and a dick getting plowed in their ass every couple of pages.

Danbooru's newhalf_with_male implies that a newhalf is other than a male, the assumption seems to be that when users are looking for a newhalf they aren't looking for a male, except when the newhalf is actually interacting (usually sexually) with that other category of person who is male. They specifically state: "images depicting at least one newhalf with a male character in sexual situations. This includes both traditional newhalfs and cuntboys, sometimes referred to as "reverse newhalfs".

Do not tag with Yaoi unless the image also contains male/male interactions."

So their wiki's definition differentiates between newhalfs and male characters in sexual situations. They also specify that newhalf_with_male is NOT to be combined with the yaoi tag, since, by implication, newhalf_with_male does not in itself count as a male/male interaction (they specifically state this). Jjaro was not only removing the 1girl tag from newhalf images, but was also adding the YAOI tag to such images, when a newhalf was sexually interacting with a male, which, as has been demonstrated, completely screws up the Danbooru tagging rules as specified in their inhouse wiki.

danbooru.donmai.us/wiki_pages/98312

Okay, yeah, don't add yaoi.

Also...we have a blacklist if you don't want to see newhalf.

As for the rest, it's a mater of the staff coming together and deciding to change it. We usually want multiple votes on important issues. It's easier if the matter has already been thoroughly discussed on Danbo before being imported here. As I said, most are coming with girl counter tags. It is difficult or impossible to fix this properly with automated tools.

It looked like Jerl was fine with the girl counters.
BlueBaroness and myself would be fine if we get rid of counter tags unless more than only newhalfs are present in the image. Honestly I think this should apply to futanari as well.

I can bring it up on the Danbo discord. Until then, any other mod want to add any input?

That's irrelevant, since the counter tags are based on body type and not actual sex/gender/gender identity.

Then by that very same inference, that means that newhalfs shouldn't be classified as female either. To which, I believe I only tagged one with yaoi. Also there is a tag on Danbooru which is newhalf_with_female, it may not be currently defined—but if it would be (logically equal) mean that newhalfs aren't female.



Except they are man on man, there is no vagina, there is no female. There is a very clear and definitive biological definition of what a female is. It is one man having (anal) sex with another man. Again the definition of female: (adjective) of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes. It is literally male on male (anal) sex, just because someone has implants doesn't make them a woman suddenly because they think they are. It should called what it literally is, which I have no qualms or complaints about. A man loving or having sexual intercourse with another man is fine, but it needs to be called what it is, it shouldn't be danced around and called something else that already has a defined word. I don't see what is so convoluted about addressing the fact that they aren't actual biological women; and shouldn't be classified as such. The roundabout semantics of what other tags can infer means little, because it ignores the clear, stated, universal definitions of the words girl and boy.



I grasp the point of that it conflicts with Danbooru's illogical rules. I won't do it, but I don't agree with it.



I am honestly starting to think that no one is actually reading what I am writing. I know what the blacklist is, I've been on the site since 2011, I would hope that the moderators could see my specific blacklist and see that I've already made use of it.

I am arguing that they shouldn't be classified as girls because they do not meet the literal definition of the word. And including them in the tag defeats the very purpose of the word and the definition of it that has existed since the formulation of the English language. That is my very particular problem with this. You can't just slap a Maserati Emblem on the front of a Chevy Malibu and call it a Gran Turismo.

I guess another way of seeing this would be that refering to them as girls would be poluting the idea of the newhalf since they have specifically gone out of their way to acquire secondary female sexual characteristics while retaining their original sex organs. Let them be their own defined gender instead of piggybacking on another.



Which proves my entire point, they are still men. They should be tagged as such. They still have their (original) male sex organs, and primary sex organs far outweigh secondary and teriatary sexual characteristics. Females don't have penises, or testicles. I'm pretty sure no one gestated in their mother's ballsack and breached through the penis to be born. Although with today's social/political climate you can never be too sure.

"The roundabout semantics of what other tags can infer means little, because it ignores the clear, stated, universal definitions of the words girl and boy."

It all means little. If you've been here so long you'd know that "We take the internet cereally." Some of our oldest and most used tags are also slang like pussy, trap and milf. Let's not ignore the fact that newhalf and futanari are are essentially weeb words in English. Sure most of our content is SFW but how many users outside of safe mode are here for vanilla? The girl and boy counter tags are so loosely defined that we allow animals and fantasy races/beasts/Pokemon to be counted among them. Apparently newhalf has been thrown in #girl by a convention that is older than this site (scraped from Danbo).

And no, moderators cannot see your blacklist or any of your user options. (Unless there is something the admin's haven't told me.)

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/newhalf

You are going to have to pick one. Honestly it doesn't really matter if people agree or disagree, since the tag already implies its own thing if people cannot agree. You could honestly give it both or neither, and you are going to confuse the fuck out of someone either way.

Game over: Danbooru clearly says don't use YAOI with newhalf_with_male unless it "also contains male/male interactions." So they're not counting newhalf_with_male, for their purposes, as male/male interactions. Ergo newhalf is not male to them, but something else.

(edited)