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XerBlade commented at 2011-10-07 20:58:54 » #896436
Grin seems too malicious? Are we talking about the same Kohaku here? The main antagonist of Tsukihime who had an entire Xanatos Gambit going trying to get all the important characters to kill each other? And succeeded in a couple possible endings?
Or are we talking about the goofy fake Kohaku who does random science shit from the fanservice pseudo-sequels.....
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Grin seems too malicious? Are we talking about the same Kohaku here? The main antagonist of Tsukihime who had an entire Xanatos Gambit going trying to get all the important characters to kill each other? And succeeded in a couple possible endings?
Or are we talking about the goofy fake Kohaku who does random science shit from the fanservice pseudo-sequels.....
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XerBlade commented at 2011-10-08 02:55:51 » #896632
In fact, her plans were the exceedingly rare case wherein she was somehow using a Xanatos Gambit and Batman Gambit at the same time. A Batman Gambit because she was depending on the characters' specific personality traits for them to definitely act according to her plan. A Xanatos Gambit because, well, since Shiki, the one major variable, could potentially throw the Batman Gambit in any kind of random direction, not only does nothing lead back to her in case of "failure," but no matter what outcome Shiki sees Hisui and Kohaku in a favorable light and the most hated of all the enemies, SHIKI, ends up dead, so, no matter the outcome, she still wins in some way.
In other words, it would be stranger for her NOT to have a malicious grin.
And, once again, the fake sequels absolutely destroyed her character......
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In fact, her plans were the exceedingly rare case wherein she was somehow using a Xanatos Gambit and Batman Gambit at the same time. A Batman Gambit because she was depending on the characters' specific personality traits for them to definitely act according to her plan. A Xanatos Gambit because, well, since Shiki, the one major variable, could potentially throw the Batman Gambit in any kind of random direction, not only does nothing lead back to her in case of "failure," but no matter what outcome Shiki sees Hisui and Kohaku in a favorable light and the most hated of all the enemies, SHIKI, ends up dead, so, no matter the outcome, she still wins in some way.
In other words, it would be stranger for her NOT to have a malicious grin.
And, once again, the fake sequels absolutely destroyed her character......
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Anonymous commented at 2011-10-12 03:11:54 » #899708
Kohaku's not an antagonist, she's a sub-heroine. She is a great Chessmaster responsible for many of Tsukihime's events, but she is not motivated by maliciousness. The grin seen here is the grin of an evil woman reveling in her own ego. Kohaku's grins are always described as "innocent," "cute," and "playful." The only change is when she goes into "emotionally-dead" mode where the playful grin becomes incredibly creepy because it's frozen on her face like a doll. (This isn't counting her true end where she learns to give a genuine smile.)
So yes, this grin is too malicious. Kohaku's not 'evil,' she's traumatized and devoid of any sense of self. Which just does not fit the expression here.
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Kohaku's not an antagonist, she's a sub-heroine. She is a great Chessmaster responsible for many of Tsukihime's events, but she is not motivated by maliciousness. The grin seen here is the grin of an evil woman reveling in her own ego. Kohaku's grins are always described as "innocent," "cute," and "playful." The only change is when she goes into "emotionally-dead" mode where the playful grin becomes incredibly creepy because it's frozen on her face like a doll. (This isn't counting her true end where she learns to give a genuine smile.)
So yes, this grin is too malicious. Kohaku's not 'evil,' she's traumatized and devoid of any sense of self. Which just does not fit the expression here.
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XerBlade commented at 2011-10-15 22:53:49 » #902590
If you don't consider someone trying to kill everyone important with the exception of a couple specific people, and trying to manipulate the protagonist into making it happen against his will through the use of drugs and hypnotic suggestion, and etc... an antagonist, what the hell DO you consider one? Don't tell me you only consider someone an antagonist if they're openly opposing the main character and killing indiscriminately, because, if that's the case, you need to read more books and watch less anime and movies.
And her grins are only described as "innocent," "cute," and "playful" by misguided fans such as yourself. Shiki (AKA the narrator) described Kohaku (never describing the smile itself at first) as strangely positive, then after seeing a genuine smile from Hisui, who shares the same face with Kohaku, he proceeds to describe all of Kohaku's regular smiles as "empty" and "cold" by drawing a comparison (also, she's ALWAYS in "emotionally-dead" mode, she doesn't get another mode to be in until her True End).
And she made some REALLY malicious-looking smiles that this is pretty reminiscent of whenever she disguised herself as Hisui and succeeded in feeding Shiki more drugs.
Also, you obviously pulled the "reveling in her own ego" part out of your ass (considering nothing about this image gives such an impression), but that's beside the point.
P.S. All of her smiles were equally "frozen on her face like a doll." The same for every other character, in fact. After all, they weren't animated (and Shiki didn't describe it like that, so the lack of animation would then be the only reason for the "frozen" effect, lest you're adding more details with your own imagination with this as well).
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If you don't consider someone trying to kill everyone important with the exception of a couple specific people, and trying to manipulate the protagonist into making it happen against his will through the use of drugs and hypnotic suggestion, and etc... an antagonist, what the hell DO you consider one? Don't tell me you only consider someone an antagonist if they're openly opposing the main character and killing indiscriminately, because, if that's the case, you need to read more books and watch less anime and movies.
And her grins are only described as "innocent," "cute," and "playful" by misguided fans such as yourself. Shiki (AKA the narrator) described Kohaku (never describing the smile itself at first) as strangely positive, then after seeing a genuine smile from Hisui, who shares the same face with Kohaku, he proceeds to describe all of Kohaku's regular smiles as "empty" and "cold" by drawing a comparison (also, she's ALWAYS in "emotionally-dead" mode, she doesn't get another mode to be in until her True End).
And she made some REALLY malicious-looking smiles that this is pretty reminiscent of whenever she disguised herself as Hisui and succeeded in feeding Shiki more drugs.
Also, you obviously pulled the "reveling in her own ego" part out of your ass (considering nothing about this image gives such an impression), but that's beside the point.
P.S. All of her smiles were equally "frozen on her face like a doll." The same for every other character, in fact. After all, they weren't animated (and Shiki didn't describe it like that, so the lack of animation would then be the only reason for the "frozen" effect, lest you're adding more details with your own imagination with this as well).
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XerBlade commented at 2011-10-15 22:55:40 » #902591
Also, "sub-heroine" and antagonist are not mutually exclusive. It's very easy to be both at once. I mean, for one thing, "sub-heroine" isn't even a real literary term. It's an otaku fanboy term, and not even an incredibly popular one at that.
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Also, "sub-heroine" and antagonist are not mutually exclusive. It's very easy to be both at once. I mean, for one thing, "sub-heroine" isn't even a real literary term. It's an otaku fanboy term, and not even an incredibly popular one at that.
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